ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon TALLTREES » 17. Jul 2014, 10:19

Hello. Does any member know the issue date of this "ILA" Vignette :?: , if so please let me know, i have found out who designed this Vignette but there is no mention of when it was first issued.
Talltrees.
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ILA  (1).jpg
ILA (1).jpg (70.31 KiB) 1990-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon pasol » 17. Jul 2014, 16:06

Dear TALLTREES,

Kuno Sollors's Catalog "Nichtpostalische Flugmarken Katalogisierungen. Teil 7" writes on p.6 ILA No.1 "July 10th, 1909" with opening the ILA 1909 exhibition.
But official post office ILA 1909 opened at June 6th, 1909 from 8:00.
I know much more than 2 main types (ILA-V 05 & ILA-V 07) of vignettes from ILA 1909. 8-)
Please see p.46-47 from "Sonderrundbrief 1989" to 80-years anniversary ILA 1909 from Arbeitsgemeinschaft Zeppelinpost.
I show some items of ILA 1909 from my collection.
I have the earliest using an ILA 1909 vignette of type ILA-V 07 on official postcard No.1 in own collection at July 28th, 1909 with cancellation type No2 (with "stars"). :D

Regards,
pasol.
Dateianhänge
ILA_1909_Vignette_01.jpg
ILA_1909_Vignette_01.jpg (32.89 KiB) 1972-mal betrachtet
ILA_1909_Vignette_35.jpg
ILA_1909_Vignette_35.jpg (193.86 KiB) 1972-mal betrachtet
ILA_1909_31m.jpg
ILA_1909_31m.jpg (169.57 KiB) 1972-mal betrachtet
ILA_1909_102am.jpg
ILA_1909_102am.jpg (158.75 KiB) 1972-mal betrachtet
ILA_1909_103am.jpg
ILA_1909_103am.jpg (163.82 KiB) 1972-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon pasol » 17. Jul 2014, 17:13

...continuation...
Dateianhänge
ILA_1909_40am.jpg
ILA_1909_40am.jpg (106.67 KiB) 1972-mal betrachtet
ILA_1909_40m.jpg
ILA_1909_40m.jpg (200.59 KiB) 1972-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon TALLTREES » 17. Jul 2014, 17:25

Hello pasol & thanks for your wealth of information. The reason i asked this question is becauce i have a Postcard written in English with one of these "ILA" Vignettes attached and cancelled, the cancel on the 5Pf Germania reads "8.07.08.6.7V.", and the "MOCKBA" arrival stamp reads "19.V11. 1908 7 ? " the "ILA" Vignette has both the Geman & Mockba cancels on. :?, (This year cancelled (1908) was one year before the general issue (1909) ?) i enclose pictures.
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Dateianhänge
ILA  (4).jpg
ILA (4).jpg (94.96 KiB) 1970-mal betrachtet
ILA  (2).jpg
ILA (2).jpg (164.38 KiB) 1970-mal betrachtet
ILA MOCKBA 1908.jpg
ILA MOCKBA 1908.jpg (49.49 KiB) 1970-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon pasol » 17. Jul 2014, 17:38

Dear TALLTREES,

sorry, on my opinion it is a combinated fake. Russian stamp is not genuine. I'll say all my arguments later.
Please you to compare an arrival date stamp of Moscow from your postcard with genuine arrival stamp of Moscow. And a material of date stamp is not genuine.

Next about dates... 8-) the date of departure on your postcard from Germany is 08.07.1908. The normal time of delivery mail from Germany to Moscow by train was 4-5 days in 1908. We can add as much again for a special occasion - a total of 10 days. We get like true date of arrival 18-19.07.1908 in Moscow (like on postcard). But "author" forgot about Russian calendar before 1918. When in Europe was the date 19.07.1908 in Russia only 06.07.1908 (minus 13 days!!!).
Therefore, it was a paradox that most of the mail sent from central Europe to Moscow came "before were sent" according to stamps :!:
For example: normal situation - the date of departure 08.07.1908 and the day of arrival 30.06.1908 :!: :o
Sorry...

Best regards,
pasol.
Dateianhänge
MOCKBA 1908_d.jpg
MOCKBA 1908_d.jpg (161.83 KiB) 1961-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon TALLTREES » 17. Jul 2014, 22:12

Hello pasol. Thanks for the bad news :( . So in your opinion as the Postcard was addressed to Moscow do you think that the Postcard arrived in Moscow and did not receive the "MOCKBA" arrival stamps (X 2) :?: , also the "ILA" Vignette was on the Postcard at the time of sending ( 8.07.08. 6.7 V) becauce ink from the cancel on the Green Germania 5Pf is clearly visable on the ILA Vignette. So was this "ILA" Vignette on sale in July 1908 :?
Talltrees.
Dateianhänge
ILA (8).jpg
ILA (8).jpg (46.01 KiB) 1953-mal betrachtet
ILA  (7).jpg
ILA (7).jpg (52.3 KiB) 1953-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon pasol » 18. Jul 2014, 05:11

Dear TALLTREES,

please you must understand, I say only own private opinion...
The postcard was sent at 08.07.1908 from city Grossenehrich (Thuringia/Germany) as I read. The author writes too about this "...am now at Thüringen...". There is not in text about Frankfurt am Main and why here vignette ILA 1909? :(
My opinion is that the ILA 1909 vignette has no relation to this postcard and was later added and canceled with fake stamp of Moscow.
I know a specialist about ILA 1909 in Germany and you can ask him about this postcard:
Herr Ralf-Peter Hagedorn
Postfach 1106
D-65531 Limburg
Tel. 06479 300, Fax 06479 1818


Regards,
pasol.
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon pasol » 18. Jul 2014, 19:13

Dear TALLTREES,

the Kunstanstalt (Art Agency) Wüsten & Co. Frankfurt am Main took an image of vignette ILA-V 07 from the official ILA 1909 poster painted by artist Alfred Nathaniel OPPENHEIM (1873-1953) in March 1909.

Best regards,
pasol.
Dateianhänge
ILA_1909_Poster_01m.jpg
ILA_1909_Poster_01m.jpg (156.48 KiB) 1929-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon TALLTREES » 18. Jul 2014, 21:11

Hello pasol. Thank you for your reply and letting me know about the Specialist you know " Herr Ralf-Peter Hagedorn ", maybe he could view this Postcard on this website and let him give you his opinion?. Another thing that i can not understand is why some body would take a lot of trouble to falsify this not so valuble Postcard by adding "Moscow" arrival stamps?, i could understand it if this was a Zeppelin mail where we have already seen Russian "FAKES" to increase the value :? . To continue i have a small collection of "ILA" official Postcards (No 1+No 2), but none have the Vignette added, here are some pictures, also 3 different Postmarks from mail sent on these Official "ILA" Postcards.
Talltrees.
Dateianhänge
ILA (14).jpg
ILA (14).jpg (78.21 KiB) 1926-mal betrachtet
ILA (14) +1.jpg
ILA (14) +1.jpg (94.34 KiB) 1926-mal betrachtet
ILA POSTMARKS.jpg
ILA POSTMARKS.jpg (45.67 KiB) 1926-mal betrachtet
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Re: ILA VIGNETTE/POSTER STAMP

Beitragvon TALLTREES » 20. Jul 2014, 09:44

Continuing again with Special "ILA" Postcard No 1, this Postcard was sent from the "ILA" Exihibition (see text).
Talltrees.
Dateianhänge
ILA 16 +1.jpg
ILA 16 +1.jpg (62.45 KiB) 1897-mal betrachtet
ILA 16.jpg
ILA 16.jpg (83.55 KiB) 1897-mal betrachtet
ILA 16 +2.jpg
ILA 16 +2.jpg (40.6 KiB) 1897-mal betrachtet
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