Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Beitragvon Zeppelin » 15. Nov 2011, 15:23

The date of dispatch of the illustrated cover is hard to read - it reads 18.IX which is 18 September.

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There is the red German flight cachet on front bearing the letter code "a" and the Guayaquil, Ecuador arrival on the back is clearly reading as 10 November 1936. There are no other markings on the cover, except the handwritten notes "Per Deutsche luchtdienst" which translates to "By German Airmail" and also the note "Mil Luftschiff Graf Zeppelin", which translates to "By airship Graf Zeppelin".

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That would make a 53 days transit.... That is way too long, the average transit time Germany - Ecuador by DLH was 8 days.

I have listed this cover with the 14th South America Flight, this was the first South America flight following the 18 September 1936 dispatch. But was it flown on this flight at all???? Obviously not.... because with the Condor and PANAGRA connections via Rio, Buenos Aires and Santiago, zeppelin mail of the 14th South America Flight would have reached Guayaquil on 2 October 1936. The arrival of this cover at Guayaquil per the arrival marking was 10 November 1936, more then one month later.

So what is wrong with this cover????
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Re: Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Beitragvon alexiosp » 15. Nov 2011, 21:35

Probably, one of the two datestamps has the wrong month inserted.
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Re: Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Beitragvon Graf Zeppelin » 17. Nov 2011, 08:40

alexiosp hat geschrieben:Probably, one of the two datestamps has the wrong month inserted.

So you are thinking of these two combinations:
- Departure 18 September with arrival 10 October (instead of 10 November, incorrect arrival postmark)
- Departure 18 October (instead of 18 September, incorrect dispatch postmark) with arrival 10 November
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Re: Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Beitragvon alexiosp » 18. Nov 2011, 11:38

Yeap, one of these two options seem to be in order.
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Re: Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Beitragvon saintex » 19. Nov 2011, 13:51

Hello @Zeppelin,

in September/October 1936 there were three airmail services available for Dutch airmail to Ecuador[1]:
1. Dienst VIII: via Air France Paris-Toulouse- Buenos Aires
2. Dienst IX: via DLH/Condor/Zeppelin Berlin/Frankfurt-Natal/Recife-Rio de Janeiro-Buenos Aires
3. Dienst XXVII: surface to New York and onward air transmission New York-Cristobal/Canal Zone-Santiago
According to the information stated in the Dutch airmail handbook on p. 711 there was a connecting flight from Buenos Aires to Guayaquil/Ecuador by PANAGRA once a week.

As (1.)the handwritten routing instruction on the front "Per Duitsche Luchtdienst", (2.)the red staging cachet with the letter "a" (Berlin) and (3.)the airmail surcharge of 80 cents[2] show, the cover was carried to South America by Dienst IX, i.e. by DLH/Condor/Zeppelin.

In your post of 15th November you state that the date in the handstamp on the front of your cover reads "18.IX",i.e. 18th
September (1936). I have to admit that on the first glance the scan of the enlarged datestamp seems to confirm your statement as to the date in the handstamp on the front of your cover.

From my point of view, however, the departure date "18.IX" ( a Friday) is inconsistent with the routing of your cover via DLH/Condor/Zeppelin. To secure the fastest transportation of the cover to its destination the Dutch postal authorities shoud have routed the cover via the first available airmail service to Ecuador, i.e. via Air France whose South American airmail service left Toulouse on Sunday 20th September 1936 and arrived in Buenos Aires on 23rd September[3]. As in September 1936 there were three daily flights from Amsterdam to Paris and the flying time took only appr. an hour and a half[4] there was plenty of time for your cover to catch up with the Air France South America service departing in Toulouse on 20th September. On the other hand I can see no reason why the Dutch postal authorities should have held up the cover for transportation via Berlin and LZ 127 Graf Zeppelin on 23rd September from Frankfurt, all the more as the cover was obviously a comercial item.

Therefore from my point of view the date "18.IX" is either a date error (as @alexiosp assumed) or is simply an optical
illusion caused by a soiled or defective stamping device while the date actually reads "18.X." which date would be consistent with the tansportation of your cover via Dienst IX, i.e. Zeppelin/Condor. In this case the next available airmail service to South America was by LZ 129 Hindenburg (16th South America Flight) departing in Frankfurt on Wednesday 21st October 1936 7.29 AM and arriving in Natal on 24th October where the mail was dropped to Condor. The airmail carried on this Zeppelin flight arrived in Buenos Aires in the evening of Sunday 25th October 1936[5].

If your cover was really on the 16th South America flight this does not explain, however, why the cover reached Guayquil
not before 10th November 1936. According to the Luftpostliste for October/November 1936 the scheduled arrival time of
the airmail carried on the 16th South America flight in Guayaquil/Ecuador was Friday 30th October 1936[6].


References:
[1]TSchroots/TSchroots-Boer, Luchtvaart en Luchtpost encyclopedie Vol. 1 Amsterdam/NL 1990 pp.707-713, 746
[2]The airmail surcharge for Dutch airmail to Ecuador by Air France and DLH/Condor/Zeppelin in September/October 1936
was 80 cent per 5 grammes. Via New York : 40 cent per 5 grammes. TSchroots op.cit. p.713 and 746
[3]Edward B. Proud, Intercontinental Airmails Vol. 1: Transatlantic and Pacific, Heathfield/UK 2008 p. 213
[4]Luftpostliste for August/September 1936 p. 21 published by the German Postmaster General(Reichspostministerium)
[5]Graue/Duggan, Deutsche Lufthansa South Atlantic Airmail Service 1934-1939 Ickenham/UK 2000 p.166
[6]page 34



saintex
Zuletzt geändert von saintex am 26. Nov 2011, 23:25, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
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Re: Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Beitragvon Zeppelin » 23. Nov 2011, 13:21

Thank you saintex for this excellent analysis!

saintex hat geschrieben:As in September 1936 there were three daily flights from Amsterdam to Paris and the flying time took only appr. an hour and a half[4] there was plenty of time for your cover to catch up with the Air France South America service

The sender of the cover is from Zwijndrecht which is very close to Rotterdam. According to the Reichsluftkursbuch, KLM was flying in 1935 daily from Amsterdam via Rotterdam to Paris: Scheduled departure at Rotterdam was 1.15 pm and arrival at Paris was 2.55 pm. Perhaps the cover was sent from Rotterdam to Paris rather then from Amsterdam. The cover could also have gone by surface, there was sufficnet time e.g. for a night train service from Rotterdam to Paris to catch the Saturday 6.30 pm deadline at Paris for the Air France South Atlantic service.

With all that information provided by saintex, it is evident that the cover was not dispatched on 18 September 1936. The cover would have gone by Air France rather then Lufthansa.

An actual 18 October 1936 dispatch with an incorrect 18 September dispatch marking seems to be more consistent, but saintex pointed already to a problem with the PANAGRA leg: LZ-129 Hindenburg and the Condor connection was on time at arrival at Buenos Aires and Santiago on 25 October resp. 26 October, so the problem must have occured on the PANAGRA connection from Buonos Aires/Santiago to Guayaquil.

saintex hat geschrieben:According to the Luftpostliste for October/November 1936 the scheduled arrival time of
the airmail carried on the 16th South America flight in Guayquil/Ecuador was Friday 30th October 1936

That means that we are talking about a delay of 10 days: the scheduled arrival was 30 October 1936 but the actual arrival of the cover at Guayaquil was 10 November 1936.

saintex hat geschrieben:According to the information stated in the Dutch airmail handbook on p. 711 there was a connecting flight from Buenos Aires to Guayquil/Ecuador by PANAGRA once a week.

PANAGRA was operating the Montevideo - Barranquilla flights twice a week with stops at Buenos Aires, Santiago de Chile and Guayaquil. Departure at Buenos Aires was Wednesdays and Saturdays at 8.30 am, departure at Santiago was Thursdays and Sundays at 8.00, arrival at Guayaquil was Fridays and Mondays at 5.36 p.m.

So even if something would have gone wrong with the first PANAGRA flight following the arrival at Buenos Aires or Santiago, the cover could have taken the second PANAGRA flight four days later. Instead of arriving at Guayaquil on Friday 30 October 1936, the cover would have reached Guayaquil on Monday 2 November instead.

So even with a failed first PANAGRA connection, the arrival of the second PANAGRA flight on 2 November 1936 is still 8 days away from the actual arrival of the cover at Guayaquil on 10 November 1936. To be very honest, I have my doubts that the cover was dispatched on 18 October 1936 and that it was flown on the 16th South America Flight - the arrival of the cover at Guayaquil does not match that service nor does it match the alternative service in case something went wrong with the first PANAGRA flight.
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Re: Netherlands - Ecuador 14th South America Flight 1936

Beitragvon alexiosp » 25. Nov 2011, 14:09

Saintex and Zeppelin,

very impressive analysis, always a joy to read your authoriative comments!
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